Used Cylindrical Grinding Cnc for sale (12,966)

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 1000 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±8 ° longitudinal feed of the table 1300 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,5 t dimensions of the machine ca. 4,2 x 2,0 m As the world’s leading company in Kellenberger overhaul and retrofit we are not only able to deliver machines in a quality similar to a new machine and with warranty, but we can also offer you the service for your machines.Foto von Kürzlich gelieferten Maschinen mit zusätzlichen Optionen wie: -Spritzschutztüren -Kabine x-Achse -Schwenkwinkelanzeige Schleifspindelstock Geometrisch überholt und neu lackiert mit original Elektrik. Maschine hat Zentralschmierung und Rollenführung in der Flachbahn der x-Achse sowie Luftabhebung im Schleifspindelstock serienmäßig. -Digitalanzeige in 2 Achsen. Auflösung x-Achse 0,5my Optionen: -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Werkstückspindelstock -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Schleifspindelstock (keine Höhenverstellung mit Spindel möglich) -Neue stabile Innenschleifvorrichtung Durchmesser 80mm oder 100mm mit Höhenjustierung. -Erhöhung der Spitzenhöhe auf max. 225mm Godpfouxftxox Akyjbu -Drehzahlregelung für die Schleifspindel Inklusive: -Bedienwerkzeug -Spannrohr für Futter weiteres Zubehör auf Anfrage. Die Werkzeugmaschine entspricht zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt nicht den grundlegenden Sicherheits- und Schutzanforderungen wie in der BetrSichV 2015 genannt. Eine Anhebung des erforderlichen Mindest-Schutzzieles ist mittels einer Gefährdungsbeurteilung nach BetrSichV zu ermitteln.

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 1000 mm Gedpfx Aket Ii Nueyobu centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±8 ° longitudinal feed of the table 1300 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,5 t dimensions of the machine ca. 4,2 x 2,0 m Geometrically overhauled with new paint and new electrical cabinet. Foto of a 600U which we already have delivered. -Digital display in 2 axes. Resolution of x-Achse 0,5my Options: -Encoder with digital display in workpiece spindle head -Encoder with digital display in grinding spindle head (Height adjustment with spindle not possible) -Increase the center heigh to max. 225mm -Speed control of the grinding spindle -cooling unit with filtration Including:: -Adjustment tool -Draw tube for chucks other accessories on reqeust

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 1000 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min Gbsdpfx Aksv I Eq Seyju grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±8 ° longitudinal feed of the table 1300 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,5 t dimensions of the machine ca. 4,2 x 2,0 m Ready for delivery, with 12 month warranty in germany and neighbouring countries! Geometrically overhauled and repainted with new electrics. In KELLENBERGER quality!!! -Digital display in 2 axes. Resolution x-axis 0.5my -Modern workpiece headstock with cone MK5 -Modern tailstock with cone MK3 -Modern hydraulic unit -Paper belt filter Further accessories on request

Condition: excellent (used), with internal grinding attachment Center height 125 mm Gbedpeiu E Trsfx Akyou Distance between centers 600 mm Grinding wheel 400 x 40 x 127 mm Misc.accessories MARCELS MASCHINEN AG

Year of construction: 2009, condition: ready for operation (used), A Junker CNC cylindrical grinding machine overhauled in 2019 is available. Grinding length: 150mm, center height: 100mm, max. workpiece weight: 5kg, max. grinding diameter: 500mm, orbital diameter: 80mm, grinding wheel diameter: 400mm. Machine dimensions X/Y/Z: approx. 2850mm/1450mm/2000mm, weight: approx. 2000kg, control: Siemens Sinumerik. Including BKW chiller, Knoll VL 1000/4000 cooling lubricant system with 6500l container and Hyfra industrial recooler. Documentation available. On-site inspection is possible. Gbjdpfswtg Eysx Akyeu

Year of construction: 1988, condition: used, Tschudin cylindrical grinding machine. Godoz Dpzmopfx Akyebu

Condition: repair required (used), Type AS - 900 Machine No. 74054 Centre distance 900 mm Centre height 150 mm Max. grinding wheel 400 x 80 x 127 mm Godpszw H I Tefx Akyobu Centre height 150 mm Centre distance 900 mm ..... Condition: The machine cannot be switched on! The following applies to this machine: Condition unknown! Scope of delivery as per attached images ....

Condition: refurbished (used), Year of construction: 2020, Machine Type: Cylindrical Grinding Machine Manufacturer: Schaudt Maschinenbau GmbH Model: PS 4 Year of Original Manufacture: 1986 Renovation/Retrofit: 2020 Control System (Post-Retrofit): Siemens CNC SINUMERIK 840D General Specifications Application: External cylindrical grinding Grinding Method: Plunge, traverse, face grinding Control Type: CNC (Siemens retrofit in 2020) Machine Weight: Approx. 3,500 – 4,500 kg Installation Area: Approx. 3.5 m x 2.0 m Workpiece Capacity Center Height: 180 mm Distance Between Centers: 1000 mm (varies by version) Max Workpiece Diameter: 360 mm Max Workpiece Weight: ~150 kg between centers Grinding Spindle Grinding Wheel Diameter: 400 mm Grinding Wheel Width: 50 mm Bore: 127 mm Peripheral Speed: Up to 45 m/s Spindle Drive Power: ~7.5 kW Spindle Speed Range: Up to 1,500 – 2,500 rpm (depending on wheel size) Headstock Type: Fixed or rotating spindle Speed Range (if motorized): ~30 – 500 rpm Taper: MK4 or similar Drive: AC Servo (post-retrofit) Tailstock Type: Manual or hydraulically actuated Quill Stroke: Approx. 50 mm Godpfx Aksw Avrzoyobu Quill Diameter: ~75 mm Axes X-Axis (infeed): CNC-controlled Z-Axis (longitudinal): CNC-controlled Resolution: 0.001 mm Drive Type: Digital servo motors with ball screw Position Feedback: Absolute/Incremental linear encoders Coolant System Coolant Tank Capacity: Approx. 150 – 250 liters Coolant Pump: High-pressure, with filtration system Other Features (Post-Retrofit) Siemens HMI with touch interface Electronic handwheels (MPG) Updated safety system and enclosure New electrical cabinet with ventilation and cooling Optional AE sensor for gap detection or touch dressing

Year of construction: 2024, condition: ready for operation (used), An almost like-new and high-precision CNC centerless grinding machine Monzesi is available. Grinding wheel outer diameter min./max.: 406mm/280mm, inner diameter: 152mm, max. width: 200mm, speed: 2100rpm, power: 11kW. Regulating wheel outer diameter min./max.: 160mm/254mm, inner diameter: 115mm, max. width: 200mm, speed: 285rpm. Workpiece diameter: 100mm, workpiece length: 200mm, regulating wheel axial adjustment: +/-10mm, taper setting: -2°/6°, tilt adjustment: +/-5°, accuracy: 0.0001mm. Machine dimensions X/Y/Z: approx. 3800mm/2000mm/21500mm, weight: approx. 4500kg, control: CNC Fanuc 35i-B Digital, operating hours April/2026: 481h. Documentation available. An on-site inspection is possible. Expected to be available from end of July/August 2026. Gbjdpsyyb Tlefx Akyju

Condition: excellent (used), Grinding range 600 x 460 mm Wheel diameter 250 mm Magnetic plate 500 x 250 mm Misc.accessories Gsdpsmmdhrjfx Akyjbu MARCELS MASCHINEN CH

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1982, Technical details: grinding diameter: 350 mm grinding length: 1000 mm centre height: 225 mm grinding length: max. 1600 mm centre distance: 1540 mm spindle bore: 38 mm max. swivability: 90 ° weight of the machine ca.: 6,0 t dimension machine xH: 4,4 x 2,45 x 2,3 mm Machine with CNC package and DFU connection Multi-range measuring head for interrupted surface Tailstock with cylinder error correction Gjdpfx Akow Rktzsysbu Final balance balancing device *

Condition: good (used), grinding diameter 450 mm grinding length 600 mm centre height 140 mm workpiece dia. 280 mm Gbjdpfx Akjxcblqoyou number of turns of spindle head 63 - 400 U/min grinding wheel speeds 20-35 m/s dimensions of the machine ca. 2,4 x 1,9 x 2,1 m

Condition: used, Tschudin HTG310 Universal Cylindrical Grinder Centre height: 100mm Distance between centres: 340mm (13.4") Maximum grinding diameter: 200mm Maximum grinding length: 340mm Hydraulic table traverse Table swivel: ±11° Wheelhead swivel: ±5° Workhead swivel: 360° Infinitely variable workhead spindle speed: 50–500 RPM Automatic plunge and traverse grinding cycles Automatic infeed with adjustable spark-out timer Rapid wheelhead advance and retract Hydrodynamic wheelhead bearings for exceptional accuracy Gsdjzrt Ipepfx Akyebu Grinding wheel size: 350 x 50 x 127mm (14" x 2" x 5") Fitted With Hydraulic table drive Universal workhead Tailstock Coolant system Wheel guard Machine lighting

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 1983, functionality: fully functional, machine/vehicle number: 1404, total width: 1,690 mm, total length: 3,410 mm, total height: 1,915 mm, overall weight: 3,000 kg, TECHNICAL DATA Capacity - Height of centres: 125/175mm - Distance between centers: 400mm; 700mm; 1025mm - Max.travel of longitudinal slide: 400mm; 700mm; 1025mm Table - Table speed steplessly adjustable: 0.5 - 5.5 m/min. - Reversal dwell of table: 0-6 sec. - Minimum automatic stroke approx.: 1.5mm - Maximum swivel of table: 400 deg.- 12 ; 700 deg. -10; 1025 deg.- 8 - Travel per revolution of handwheel: 25mm Workhead - Swivel towards grinding wheel: 90 deg. - Spindle speed, steplessly variable: 30 - 675 RPM - Spindle nose taper: Morse 5 - Collet shank diameter: 25mm - Diameter of 3-jaw chuck: 160mm Wheelhead - Grinding wheel L.H. or R.H.: - Diameter (special exec. 6.25kW/8.4 HP): 400 (450) mm - Maximum width: 50 (80) mm - Bore: 127 (203) mm - Spindle speeds (3-step Vee-belt pulley) - Grinding wheel dia 400: 1500/1625/1800/2000/2200/2400 RPM - Grinding wheel dia 450 (8.4HP): 1340/1500/1625/1800/2000/2200 RPM - Grinding wheel motor approx.: 3kW - Grinding wheel motor, special for 450 dia wheel approx.: 6.25kW - Rapid travel of wheelhead: - Hydr.approach and retraction: 40 mm - Additional adjustment with hand leveler: 210 mm - Swivel of the whole cross slide L.H. and R.H.: 45 deg. - Interminent feed, steplessly adjustable (on dia) at left or right hand table reversal, or both: 0.001 - 0.05 mm/sec. - Plunge feed, steplessly adjustable (on dia): 0.0002 - 0.1 mm/sec. - Maximum depth of plunge on dia: 1.7 mm Motor rating Godpfx Aksupiycjyebu - Wheel spindle, standard: 3 kW - Wheel spindle special rating: 6.25 kW - Workhead: 0.55 kW - Hydraulics: 0.55 kW - Coolant pump, standard: 0.17 kW - Coolant pump, inteclon: 1.1 kW Workpiece weight - Maximum between centers: 80 kg Extras: grinding wheels, coilets, other additional equipment, user manuals

Condition: good (used), Distance between points 1000 mm Stitch height 230 mm Main motor power 9.2 Kw Working wheel dimensions (h x w x d x w) 500x80x203.2 mm Gbjdpfx Akjtrgnzoysu Ø max to grind 460 mm Tailstock cone MORSE 4 MORSE 5 tailstock nose cone Max. Z-axis travel 1115 mm Max. X-axis travel 260 mm Approx dimensions (length x width) 440x370 cm Approx. weight 4700 Kg

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1995, grinding diameter 350 mm grinding length 1000 mm centre height 175 mm Teilüberholte Maschine mit Messprotokoll nach Neumaschinentoleranz Gbedpfx Akjyatx Soyju NEUE Steuerung Eckelmann ENC mit BEMA Schleifsoftware KEL-ASSIST für Kelco 90 numerisch gesteuerte B-Achse Innnschleifrinrichtung Dia 80mm Schleifscheibe links Durchmesser 400mm Schleifscheibe rechts Durchmesser 300mm Innenschleifspindel HJN 828 hydraulischer Reitstock Mikroverstellung KEL SET Messsystem

Condition: used, grinding diameter 350,450 mm grinding length 600 mm centre height 175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm Gjdpfxsd Ih D Eo Akyobu bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±10 ° longitudinal feed of the table 900 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,2 t dimensions of the machine ca. 3,1 x 2,0 m As the world’s leading company in Kellenberger overhaul and retrofit we are not only able to deliver machines in a quality similar to a new machine and with warranty, but we can also offer you the service for your machines. Foto von bereits gelieferter Maschine mit eventuell anderen Optionen. Maschine hat Zentralschmierung und Rollenführung in der Flachbahn der x-Achse sowie Luftabhebung im Schleifspindelstock serienmäßig. BEMA Standard serienmäßig: -Digitalanzeige in 2 Achsen. Auflösung x-Achse 0,5my -Drehzahlanzeige Schleifspindel -Stufenlose Drehzahl Schleifspindel 70-100% -Stufenlose Drehzahl Innenschleifspindel 70-100% -Werkstückspindelantrieb durch Drehstrommotor stufenlos regelbar über Frequenzumrichter Mögliche Optionen gegen Aufpreis: -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Werkstückspindelstock -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Schleifspindelstock (keine Höhenverstellung mit Spindel möglich) -Sinuslineal -Neue stabile Innenschleifvorrichtung Durchmesser 80mm oder 100mm mit Höhenjustierung. -Erhöhung der Spitzenhöhe auf max. 225mm -Drehzahlregelung für die Schleifspindel Inklusive: -Bedienwerkzeug -Spannrohr für Futter Natürlich erhalten Sie auf unsere generalüberhalten Maschinen 12 Monate Gewährleistung. (Nur Anrainerstaaten) weiteres Zubehör auf Anfrage. Die Werkzeugmaschine entspricht zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt nicht den grundlegenden Sicherheits- und Schutzanforderungen wie in der BetrSichV 2015 genannt. Eine Anhebung des erforderlichen Mindest-Schutzzieles ist mittels einer Gefährdungsbeurteilung nach BetrSichV zu ermitteln

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 1500 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ± 6 ° longitudinal feed of the table 1750 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130/150 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 80 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,9 t dimensions of the machine ca. 5,6 x 2,0 m Overhauled with geometric KELLENBERGER protocoll. Pictures of a similar 1000mm machine. Godpfx Akod Ih Dwoysbu -New electrical cabinet -Modern workhead -Modern tailstock -Modern hydraulic power unit -air lift for grindingwheeel head -modern internal grinding device Extension of the upper table swivel to 10° Optional: -Swivel angle digital read out upper table -Swivel angle digital read out workhead -Swivel angle digital read out grindingwhell head -Splash protection door z-axis -Splash protection housing x-axis etc. ADDITIONAL: -we can offer service for the machines -we can offer technical advice -we can offer training -we have spare parts -we have accessories

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 600 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min Gsdpfx Akjd Ih D Rjyobu 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±10 ° longitudinal feed of the table 900 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,2 t dimensions of the machine ca. 3,1 x 2,0 m Compete overhauled machine according to Kellenberger new machine protocoll -Digitalanzeige in 2 Achsen. Auflösung x-Achse 0,5my Optionen: -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Werkstückspindelstock -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Schleifspindelstock (keine Höhenverstellung mit Spindel möglich) -Neue stabile Innenschleifvorrichtung Durchmesser 80mm oder 100mm mit Höhenjustierung. -Erhöhung der Spitzenhöhe auf max. 225mm -Drehzahlregelung für die Schleifspindel Inklusive: -Bedienwerkzeug -Spannrohr für Futter -Spitze MK3 -Spitze MK5 -Futterflansch weiteres Zubehör auf Anfrage. Die Werkzeugmaschine entspricht zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt nicht den grundlegenden Sicherheits- und Schutzanforderungen wie in der BetrSichV 2015 genannt. Eine Anhebung des erforderlichen Mindest-Schutzzieles ist mittels einer Gefährdungsbeurteilung nach BetrSichV zu ermitteln.

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 1000 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±8 ° longitudinal feed of the table 1300 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,5 t dimensions of the machine ca. 4,2 x 2,0 m Foto von baugleicher Maschine in Spitzenhöhe 225mm Version R: Maschine hat Zentralschmierung und Rollenführung in der Flachbahn der x-Achse sowie Luftabhebung im Schleifspindelstock. -Digitalanzeige in 2 Achsen. Auflösung x-Achse 0,5my Gbsded Ih D Hepfx Akyju Optionen: -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Werkstückspindelstock -Drehgeber mit digitaler Anzeige im Schleifspindelstock (keine Höhenverstellung mit Spindel möglich) -Erhöhung der Spitzenhöhe auf max. 225mm -Drehzahlregelung für die Schleifspindel -Papierbandfilter Inklusive: -Bedienwerkzeug -Spannrohr für Futter weiteres Zubehör auf Anfrage.

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2003, 2003 Mitsubishi CNC Shaving Gear cutter grinder Model ZA30CNC, Year 2003, With Fanuc Series 16i-M HMI, Includes FN-0013 Dust Collector, Power 200/220 Volts / 3 Phase , Weight 15000 Lbs. Gsdpfxjywftko Akyebu

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2001, 2001 Kellenberger CNC Grinder KEL-VARIA RS175/1000 Gbsdpfxoywftde Akyju

Condition: excellent (used), Kellenberger 1000U cylindrical grinding machine with many accessories available at a low price. This machine is in very good condition and is fully functional. It was purchased as a completely overhauled unit in 2019. Price greatly reduced!!!!! Gbedpjwkt Eujfx Akyeu

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1979, grinding diameter 630 mm grinding length 4000 mm centre height / mm weight of the machine ca. 32000 kg Discover precision machining with the STANKO 3M194, equipped with a spacious grinding area of 630 x 4000 mm. Weighing at 32,000 KG, this robust machine ensures stability and reliability in your machining processes. Classified under HS-Code 84602910, it meets international standards for quality and performance. Grinding Dimensions: 630 x 4000 mm Weight: 32,000 KG HS-Code: 84602910 Discover precision machining with the STANKO 3M194, equipped with a spacious grinding area of 630 x 4000 mm. Weighing at 32,000 KG, this robust machine ensures stability and reliability in your machining processes. Classified under HS-Code 84602910, it meets international standards for quality and performance. Gbjdpfovm Dzaex Akyou The 3M194 not only offers impressive dimensions but also incorporates innovative technology, ensuring top-notch results. With its reliable design and precise performance, this cylindrical grinding machine is ideal for processing a variety of workpieces. The precise control and versatility of the STANKO 3M194 make it the perfect choice for companies striving for the highest quality standards in metal machining. Trust in the proven technology of STANKO to optimize your manufacturing processes and achieve superior results. Invest in the future of your production with the STANKO Cylindrical Grinding Machine 3M194 - the perfect combination of performance, precision, and reliability. Contact us today to learn more about this outstanding grinding machine and how it can meet your manufacturing requirements.

Condition: used, grinding diameter 250,350,450 mm grinding length 600 mm centre height 125,175,225 mm grinding wheel diameter 400 mm grinding wheel width 50 mm bore 127 mm MK5 work piece spindle speed 20-400 U/min grinding head swivelling 360 ° Godpfxed Ih D Ne Akyebu grinding spindle head - swivable 180 + - ° grinding spindle speed 1500,1700,2200 U/min 0,001-0,030 mm/Ø 0-0,95 mm/Ø ±10 ° longitudinal feed of the table 900 mm table speeds 0,02-6 m/min 130 kg 130 inkl. Spannugkg kg 70 mm total power requirement 6,5 kW weight of the machine ca. 2,2 t dimensions of the machine ca. 3,1 x 2,0 m As the world’s leading company in Kellenberger overhaul and retrofit we are not only able to deliver machines in a quality similar to a new machine and with warranty, but we can also offer you the service for your machines.Overhauled with geometric KELLENBERGER protocoll -2-axis DRO -Paper filtration Die Werkzeugmaschine entspricht zum derzeitigen Zeitpunkt nicht den grundlegenden Sicherheits- und Schutzanforderungen wie in der BetrSichV 2015 genannt. Eine Anhebung des erforderlichen Mindest-Schutzzieles ist mittels einer Gefährdungsbeurteilung nach BetrSichV zu ermitteln.